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Steve Firth
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 Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 6:30 pm Post subject: Setting "The Americans"in context |
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A certain person regularly posting here seems to hold up "The Americans"
as being those to emulate in agriculture. Indeed we get regular
assurances that "The Americans" are watching us presumably to monitor
all the evil plots hatched here by the assorted wicked farmers who
dominate British Agriculture.
Today I've been working on realy boring stuff and I've had the radio
playing in the background tuned to Minnesota Public Radio News because
the play on Radio 4 was tedious. It has been an interesting experience
particularly because today's subject is the quality of feed and the
quality of food produced and sold within the USA.
MPRN is interesting, I've always like the Minnesota accent which is
gentle, and in many ways similar to English pronunciation, not the
dreadful flat whine that characterises Californian American which is
beamed at us 24/7 by UK broadcasters. The debate is informed and
detailed, not the terrible shallow soundbite news from the BBC.
So it has been dense with information but the picture is clear, the US
FDA, EPA and other regulatory organisations are having serious problems.
They are underfunded and can only react to safety issues, not to
investigate pro-actively. Recently a fraud involving the addition of
melamine (plastic) to feed imorted from China to bulk it up and to raise
the assayed nitrogen content passed unnoticed for many years.
Covered here by the Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6597538,00.html
And now it appears that the flour used is making its way into human food
stuff. The news article is also covering adulteration of other
foodstuffs and the FDA representative has accepted that adulteration of
food in the USA is widespread, deliberately fraudulent and impossible to
stop given current resources. He also alleged that farmin practices
within the USA are so poor that food is effectively untraceable and that
much meat sold as "homegrown" is imported, substandard food being
"laundered" via unscrupulous farmers and packing plants.
Perhaps there's nothing the UK can learn from the USA? |
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Peter Duncanson
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 8:10 pm Post subject: Re: Setting "The Americans"in context |
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On Thu, 10 May 2007 15:30:18 +0100, usenet-uba@malloc.co.uk (Steve
Firth) wrote:
<snip>
| Quote: |
So it has been dense with information but the picture is clear, the US
FDA, EPA and other regulatory organisations are having serious problems.
They are underfunded and can only react to safety issues, not to
investigate pro-actively. Recently a fraud involving the addition of
melamine (plastic) to feed imorted from China to bulk it up and to raise
the assayed nitrogen content passed unnoticed for many years.
Covered here by the Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6597538,00.html
And now it appears that the flour used is making its way into human food
stuff. The news article is also covering adulteration of other
foodstuffs and the FDA representative has accepted that adulteration of
food in the USA is widespread, deliberately fraudulent and impossible to
stop given current resources. He also alleged that farmin practices
within the USA are so poor that food is effectively untraceable and that
much meat sold as "homegrown" is imported, substandard food being
"laundered" via unscrupulous farmers and packing plants.
Perhaps there's nothing the UK can learn from the USA?
|
Not in that matter anyway, except as an object lesson in what not to
do.
"Melamine" has two related but different meanings.
1. Melamine is an organic base with the chemical formula C3H6N6,
with the IUPAC name 1,3,5-triazine-2,4,6-triamine.
2. Melamine resin - a plastic.
Presumable it was the first that was added to flour.
From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melamine
Uses
Melamine is used combined with formaldehyde to produce melamine
resin, a very durable thermosetting plastic, and of melamine
foam, a polymeric cleaning product. The end products include
countertops, fabrics, glues and flame retardants. Melamine is
one of the major components in Pigment Yellow 150, a colorant in
inks and plastics.
Melamine is also used to make fertilizers.
Melamine derivatives of arsenical drugs are potentially
important in the treatment of African trypanosomiasis [7]
Melamine use as non-protein nitrogen (NPN) for cattle was
described in a 1958 patent.[8] In 1978, however, a study
concluded that melamine "may not be an acceptable nonprotein N
source for ruminants",because its hydrolysis in cattle is slower
and less complete than other nitrogen sources such as cottonseed
meal and urea.[9]
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in uk.business.agriculture) |
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Barleycorn
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 12:35 am Post subject: Re: Setting "The Americans"in context |
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The Americans are starting to get a conscience. I have just read, (or had
read to me through my MP3 player having downloaded it from 'Easynews'),
Michael Pollon's 'The Omnivore's Dilemma'
Although he does go on a bit, it is a very interesting exposure of American
agriculture, especially the politics of 'corn' and the 2 or 3 conglomerates
that control everything from seed to fertiliser, to buying the end product.
Also he is not impressed by 'industrial' organic production. Well worth a
read.
Incidentally I am addicted to Garrison Keeler, and his Prairie Home
Companion' program on Minnesota Public Radio. brilliant film as well.
Cheers Barleycorn. |
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Steve Firth
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 1:33 am Post subject: Re: Setting "The Americans"in context |
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Barleycorn <barley_corn@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Although he does go on a bit, it is a very interesting exposure of American
agriculture, especially the politics of 'corn' and the 2 or 3 conglomerates
that control everything from seed to fertiliser, to buying the end product.
Also he is not impressed by 'industrial' organic production. Well worth a
read.
|
Corn politics are of the moment. For decades the US has been dumping
corn on other countries at prices below the cost of production in the
markets where it is sold. Now that corn prices have risen (and wobbled a
bit) those countries that ran down their own production are begining to
discover that it really doesn't pay to rely upon a capricious supplier.
| Quote: |
Incidentally I am addicted to Garrison Keeler, and his Prairie Home
Companion' program on Minnesota Public Radio. brilliant film as well.
|
Me 2.
I heard them on Radio 4 in the mornings some time ago (1980s I think)
and was glad when I managed to get web access to MPR. |
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Jim Webster
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 2:18 am Post subject: Re: Setting "The Americans"in context |
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"Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1hxx4u7.1yro8opk7iuyiN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
| Quote: |
Barleycorn <barley_corn@hotmail.com> wrote:
Although he does go on a bit, it is a very interesting exposure of
American
agriculture, especially the politics of 'corn' and the 2 or 3
conglomerates
that control everything from seed to fertiliser, to buying the end
product.
Also he is not impressed by 'industrial' organic production. Well worth
a
read.
Corn politics are of the moment. For decades the US has been dumping
corn on other countries at prices below the cost of production in the
markets where it is sold. Now that corn prices have risen (and wobbled a
bit) those countries that ran down their own production are begining to
discover that it really doesn't pay to rely upon a capricious supplier.
|
The Soviets found that to their cost in the 1980s
| Quote: |
Incidentally I am addicted to Garrison Keeler, and his Prairie Home
Companion' program on Minnesota Public Radio. brilliant film as well.
Me 2.
I heard them on Radio 4 in the mornings some time ago (1980s I think)
and was glad when I managed to get web access to MPR.
|
I remember him from Radio 4 and liked his stuff, well worth listening to
Jim Webster |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 3:03 am Post subject: Re: Setting "The Americans"in context |
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On 2007-05-10, Steve Firth <usenet-uba@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
Covered here by the Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6597538,00.html
And now it appears that the flour used is making its way into human food
stuff. The news article is also covering adulteration of other
foodstuffs and the FDA representative has accepted that adulteration of
food in the USA is widespread, deliberately fraudulent and impossible to
stop given current resources. He also alleged that farmin practices
within the USA are so poor that food is effectively untraceable and that
much meat sold as "homegrown" is imported, substandard food being
"laundered" via unscrupulous farmers and packing plants.
Perhaps there's nothing the UK can learn from the USA?
|
Problems all over, checkout what our local nutcases write about
British farming.. There was a thing in local farming paper, that
frozen chicken of asian origin is being defrosted and sold as fresh
local produce.
--
Greymaus
Just another grumpy old man |
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Steve Firth
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 3:16 am Post subject: Re: Setting "The Americans"in context |
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<greymaus@gmaildo.tcom> wrote:
| Quote: |
On 2007-05-10, Steve Firth <usenet-uba@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
Covered here by the Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6597538,00.html
And now it appears that the flour used is making its way into human food
stuff. The news article is also covering adulteration of other
foodstuffs and the FDA representative has accepted that adulteration of
food in the USA is widespread, deliberately fraudulent and impossible to
stop given current resources. He also alleged that farmin practices
within the USA are so poor that food is effectively untraceable and that
much meat sold as "homegrown" is imported, substandard food being
"laundered" via unscrupulous farmers and packing plants.
Perhaps there's nothing the UK can learn from the USA?
Problems all over, checkout what our local nutcases write about
British farming.. There was a thing in local farming paper, that
frozen chicken of asian origin is being defrosted and sold as fresh
local produce.
|
Ah well, Mrs F sells only food we have produced ourselves or that
produced by family, friends and neighbours. We have full traceability of
every ingredient and make damn sure no one gets exploited anywhere along
the way. But the vast majority of the British puboic really isn't
interested, all they want to know about food is "how cheap is it?"
I've had people argue with me that what we sell is far too expensive, by
comparison with supermarkets. And I've pointed out that often they are
mistaken, a lot of what we sell is the same price as supermarket food.
But people seem to sort of blank that out and think they genuinely
expect that because they are buying from the producer that they should
get a 40-60% discount. For some items we do sell at a high price, but as
I point out we can't compete with (say) "jam" that is mostly sugar,
water, citric acid and colouring. And we certainly can't sell extra
virgin olive oil at the same price as a mixture of cheap steam extracted
olive oil with a dash of EVOO.
Ah well, fortunately there is a minority of the population who actually
care about what they eat. So we do have a market even if it takes a lot
of work to find the customers. |
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buddenbrooks
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 9:48 am Post subject: Re: Setting "The Americans"in context |
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"Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1hxx9kc.mko3jq14vw8dyN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
| Quote: |
greymaus@gmaildo.tcom> wrote:
they genuinely
expect that because they are buying from the producer that they should
get a 40-60% discount.
|
We read that coffee beans leave the produced at 33c a kilo and end up as a
£3.50 latte at StarMucks.
A transistor radio which used to cost a weeks wages now can be bought for
half an hours pay.
You really cannot expect the majority of people to understand economics.
As in any bussiness enterprise you have to identify sufficient buyers to
justify your activity.
Why people should argue is curious, it is a market economy, you offer others
can accept or decline. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: Setting "The Americans"in context |
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On 2007-05-10, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
Ah well, Mrs F sells only food we have produced ourselves or that
produced by family, friends and neighbours. We have full traceability of
every ingredient and make damn sure no one gets exploited anywhere along
the way. But the vast majority of the British puboic really isn't
interested, all they want to know about food is "how cheap is it?"
I've had people argue with me that what we sell is far too expensive, by
comparison with supermarkets. And I've pointed out that often they are
mistaken, a lot of what we sell is the same price as supermarket food.
|
People get confused with `30% off' or `Extra free'.. pricing should be
more transparent. Store cards are a real problem, I never touch them.
| Quote: |
But people seem to sort of blank that out and think they genuinely
expect that because they are buying from the producer that they should
get a 40-60% discount. For some items we do sell at a high price, but as
I point out we can't compete with (say) "jam" that is mostly sugar,
water, citric acid and colouring. And we certainly can't sell extra
virgin olive oil at the same price as a mixture of cheap steam extracted
olive oil with a dash of EVOO.
Ah well, fortunately there is a minority of the population who actually
care about what they eat. So we do have a market even if it takes a lot
of work to find the customers.
|
Local butcher is very fussy about what he sells, and has a nice little
customer base. His son went off to work with Waitroses (sp?).. in
England, probably appreciates good weekly wages instead of having the
satisfaction of selling good food. In the current depressed stock
market, a group of farmers were discussing how to improve prices, and
one pointed out that one wholesale butcher is famous for how fussy he
is about the stock he kills, and pays very good prices still, but the
problem there is that if the main meat factorys brough in that policy
(and I have seen lots of people sent home with substandard (dirty,
whatever) from all the factorys), the probably result woulld be higher
prices for them, and they would still pay the `going rate' for stock.
Hey, was talking to one beef finisher t'other day, amongst much
wailing and gnashing of teeth, he told me of another fattener who had
replaced his JCB tractor-trailer combination after two years..
--
Greymaus
Just another grumpy old man |
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Steve Firth
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 1:51 pm Post subject: Re: Setting "The Americans"in context |
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<greymaus@gmaildo.tcom> wrote:
| Quote: |
Hey, was talking to one beef finisher t'other day, amongst much
wailing and gnashing of teeth, he told me of another fattener who had
replaced his JCB tractor-trailer combination after two years..
|
Here in Hampshire fattening Welsh lamb is normal business. Both of the
farmers in the village who undertake the trade are doing well now, but
they had a terrible time during and after the FMD business. |
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Barleycorn
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 11:16 am Post subject: Re: Setting "The Americans"in context |
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Hello Steve,
Where is this fantastic farm shop of yours?
I am in mid Hampshire, can't be too far away from you.
Off to run a murder mystery day in Cheriton now, bit of diversification!!
Barleycorn. |
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Steve Firth
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: Setting "The Americans"in context |
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Barleycorn <barley_corn@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Where is this fantastic farm shop of yours?
|
http://www.gisberto.co.uk/
| Quote: |
I am in mid Hampshire, can't be too far away from you.
Off to run a murder mystery day in Cheriton now, bit of diversification!!
|
That's incredibly close to where we are. It may also be of interest to
my wife, you can drop us mail using the contact details on the website. |
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Barleycorn
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: Setting "The Americans"in context |
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Sorry, never got back to the computer before I left.
Had a good day at Cheriton, amazing sunny afternoon! The murder and
different characters around the village, ( The flowerpots brewery, Charlie
Corbet's tractor collection etc) were filmed for an edition of 'Village
voices', coming out on Meridian somewhen in July all being well.
Will look in on your shop next time passing.
Cheers, Barleycorn. |
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Steve Firth
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: Setting "The Americans"in context |
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Barleycorn <barley_corn@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Sorry, never got back to the computer before I left.
Had a good day at Cheriton, amazing sunny afternoon!
|
? It appeared to rain all day here, and we're only two miles away!
| Quote: |
The murder and different characters around the village, ( The flowerpots
brewery, Charlie Corbet's tractor collection etc) were filmed for an
edition of 'Village voices', coming out on Meridian somewhen in July all
being well.
|
Charlie is a neighbour of mine, and we each did time on our respective
Parish Councils. Across the road is another Charlie (Flindt) who writes
for one of the farming papers from time to time and next door is the
editor of The Field. It's a firmly agricultural area.
| Quote: |
Will look in on your shop next time passing.
|
Give a call first since we're having serious staff problems at the
moment and are running the shop as best we can. I'd hate to have you
disappointed after a long drive.
One headache of being in the sticks is that most people who live here
already have a full load of work and those who live outside the area
don't want to drive into the country to go to work. |
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Pete ‹(•¿•)›
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: Setting "The Americans"in context |
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On Sun, 13 May 2007 13:50:08 +0100, %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth)
wrote:
| Quote: |
Barleycorn <barley_corn@hotmail.com> wrote:
Sorry, never got back to the computer before I left.
Had a good day at Cheriton, amazing sunny afternoon!
? It appeared to rain all day here, and we're only two miles away!
The murder and different characters around the village, ( The flowerpots
brewery, Charlie Corbet's tractor collection etc) were filmed for an
edition of 'Village voices', coming out on Meridian somewhen in July all
being well.
Charlie is a neighbour of mine, and we each did time on our respective
Parish Councils.
|
I wonder do they support bullying, do they even know about your
bullying?
| Quote: |
Across the road is another Charlie (Flindt) who writes
for one of the farming papers from time to time and next door is the
editor of The Field. It's a firmly agricultural area.
Will look in on your shop next time passing.
Give a call first since we're having serious staff problems at the
moment and are running the shop as best we can. I'd hate to have you
disappointed after a long drive.
One headache of being in the sticks is that most people who live here
already have a full load of work and those who live outside the area
don't want to drive into the country to go to work.
|
Especially if you don't want to pay them. It's always amused me how
farming folk who live on state benefits, always expect staff to work
for next to nothing.
Pay a decent wage and you'll never have staff problems. I suppose in
your case there could be extenuating reasons not to work for you!
--
Avoid the rush at the last judgement. Be converted now instead!
PRAYER FOR A NATION
When Pastor Joe Wright, of Central Christian Church, was asked
to open the new session of the Kansas Senate, everyone was expecting
the usual politically correct generalities.
But what they heard instead was this:
Heavenly Father, we come before You today to ask Your forgiveness
and seek your direction and guidance.
We know Your Word says,
‘Woe on those who call evil good,’ but that’s exactly what we have done.
We have lost our spiritual equilibrium and inverted our values.
We confess that:
We have ridiculed the absolute truth of Your Word and called it pluralism;
We have, worshipped other gods and called it multiculturalism;
We have endorsed perversion and called it an alternative lifestyle;
We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery;
We have neglected the needy and called it self-preservation;
We have killed our unborn and called it choice;
We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building self-esteem;
We have abused power and called it political savvy;
We have coveted our neighbour’s possessions and called it ambition;
We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of expression;
We have ridiculed the time-honoured values of our forefathers and called it enlightenment.
Search us, 0 God, and know our hearts today; try us and see if there be some wicked way in us;
cleanse us from every sin and set us free. Guide and bless these men and women who have
been sent here by the people of Kansas, and who have been ordained by You, to govern this great state.
Grant them Your wisdom to rule and may their decisions direct us to the centre of Your will. I ask it in the name of Your Son, the Living Saviour, Jesus Christ. Amen.”
****************
Disclaimer
Pete has taken all reasonable care to ensure that pages published by him
were accurate on the date of publication or last modification.
Other pages which may be linked or which Pete may have published are in
a personal capacity. Pete takes no responsibility for the consequences
of error or for any loss or damage suffered by users of any of the information
published on any of these pages, and such information does not form any
basis of a contract with readers or users of it.
It is in the nature of Usenet & Web sites, that much of the information is
experimental or constantly changing, that information published may
be for test purposes only, may be out of date, or may be the personal
opinion of the author.
Readers should verify information gained from the Web/Usenet with the appropriate
authorities before relying on it.
Should you no longer wish to read this material or content, please use your
newsreaders kill filter by adding Malcolm@indaal.demon.co.uk to your kill file.. |
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